Thanks people! I've just gotta send a mail to work to ask them to widen the doors so my head will fit ;) Don, cheers bud - will rectify (hopefully) tonight. 'Chelle - Nicely understated ;) he he he Misha, if I told you how little time that pic took you'd be disgusted..... :-D Dave, If you're interested in that Giger stuff the link for the Tutorials will be working soon, and that's got my technique in as a tut - not sure if some of you guys here caught it, I may just have posted the link in the 2d forum some time ago..... as far as coding is concerned, I use a prog to do most of it then add in little bits directly from windows Notepad. I simply hunted around a few sites and when I saw something I liked took a look at the source and worked out how it happens.... little things like the one-liner that turns the scroll bar black & white instead of that nasty Windoze Grey. Cheeeeeers peeps! (",)