With patches I think you could actually do that momo. Patches are wierd. They are kinda like nurbs in that they dont fold. But they turn into geometry real easy. All the stuff i've done with them have been real specialised stuff like the grip wraping on this Katana I did once. (I might post that model too just for kicks...) You manipulate the control points of the object, not the actual vertices, which is what I do most of the time with primitives or spline curves. They do actually act like 3d splines. That is the best way to refer to them infact. flat rectangles of bezier splines. Hope that helps. Kyrin.