A lot of modeling applications have 3rd party renders. Max has Mental Ray etc. The information about the Firefly render engine is listed in the manual, look at the copyrights, really wasn't hidden. The Firefly render is slower in some cases cause it can do a lot more calculate a lot more, hence takes a bit longer in some cases. Since the updates it's gotten better and better. Pixels3d licences the rendering code to other companies, not really a 'lie' as I see it, plus poser 5 has the original renderer of poser4 so it's best of both worlds. Daz3d is licencing a 3rd party rendering engine for DazStudio, I forget who's it is. The Poser5 documentation is lacking when discussing all the features of Poser5 firefly engine, I wish they had covered more. the Pixels3d docs while similar didn't really explain much to me that translated over to poser5, someone point out pages to me, I'd love more information. I dunno about unstable and slow code. Pixels3d handled the coding on that end with a lot of their programers and knowlege. Lots of software is ported PC/Mac and it's fine. Like Poser 4 for instance. I think it's a bit of a over generalization to say that CL lied and becuase it's ported it's unstable and slow. I'm with Little Dragon, I wish we could convert the free shaders out there. And yes, I'm one of those people that don't have problems with Poser5, not tryin to bash people that are having problems, I can understand some of the frustration. my 2 cents.