slakker, thank you for your opinion, well i had a hard time making a carved chair at cinema 4d so i fiugred that would do for a while, tnx for all your comments... im pretty sure that this month's challenge is going to be pretty great! a lot of great works... mloate's is also very good, the bryster, ICM very emotional, an draculaz too... im pretty sure well all going to enjoy! nuff said!