...and this may just be because it's late and I'm tired but is there THAT fine of a line between what belongs in the Poser gallery and what belongs in the Bryce gallery? I'm not taking anything away from Poser or their artists...it seems to be a complex program and I'm beginning to 'try' to learn a few things in that program for my next scene (tough task)...but it's a scene that's going to be probably 90% Bryce. Sometimes it just seems exhausting that I'll search through the new Bryce images uploaded, only to run across at least half that really need to be in the Poser gallery (meaning, in a lot of ways it's hard to tell what was actually done in Bryce besides maybe rendering.) There are a few Bryce artists that have made some awesome images in Bryce using a Poser figure that really make the picture hit home for me and are exciting to see...I can tell they used Bryce in every way possible (Alvin, Rochr, Eyecon and others, you know who you are.) Those images belong in the Bryce gallery...but I just feel that sometimes the ones that post human-only elements with no backdrop, no scene, no props, no nothing...it takes away from some of the art that is released by Bryce artists at that certain time where a clogged up gallery can steal views from them. There is a beauty with Poser...but unless it's used to convey a certain scene within Bryce, shouldn't it head the direction of the Poser gallery where it can garner much more attention and accomplishment? I feel that some that do awesome Poser-only work and upload it to the Bryce gallery are only hurting themselves, and would help themselves out more if they used the Poser gallery. I know this message will probably get ignored, but it's just something that's been on my mind in a way and wanted to see what others may have thought. Once again...I'm not taking ANYTHING away from Poser artists...I enjoy a great human image when I see one...but if there isn't much Bryce at all involved...help yourself out and use the gallery made for that type of art. I promise, once (if) I learn some Poser, I won't be polluting your gallery with my bad figures...hehe. But just keep it in mind. I'm just posting to try to help both Poser and Bryce artists. Regards, MD PS...I hope this doesn't come across too strong, I just don't know any other way to fully explain how I feel on this topic. I'm not out to take Drac's spot in the prick department...hehe ;)

i don't really agree. if it's rendered in bryce, it's bryce, doesn't matter what it is. after all it takes a bit of knowledge (granted, little), to import a figure and mats over to bryce. it used to be that poser had a crappier rendering engine than bryce, and therefore a lot of 'artists' brought it over so they could get more realism or whatever. I think it's that also. Drac PS: I wasn't gonna say anything about this, but with the prick thing, I feel it necessary to do my duty: PARAGRAPHS, MAN, PARAGRAPHS!!!! :)

While I appreciate MD's views, I don't necessarily agree. Many of us use other progs to help create what ends up on a Bryce screen, but that doesn't mean they ought to be in another forum. I notice that quite a few use wings3d, and more recently, Spiralizer is being considered for greater exploration. My point is, Poser, while a very good stand-a-lone, is for many just another tool to create a Bryce scene. The forum we inhabit is a matter of choice. And let's face it, we get a better class of user here. I doubt if other forums are this friendly or helpful.

MD: I started out posting the type of pics you mention (Poser figures, rendered in Bryce)in the Poser Gallery but found that there is a very cold reception for them there. They don't have a problem with 2d postwork, but rendering in Bryce (or any other program) is taboo there. From the Poser Gallery header: "This gallery is primarily for images rendered within Poser itself. Images of Poser figures rendered in other applications are still welcome, but what's the challenge in that? See how well you can do using it's basic rendering tools!" And the response I got from the Poser people tended to make me feel less than "still welcome". And almost no one looked at anything I put in the Mixed Media Gallery, so I brought it home to Bryce. (except some images that were really rendered in Poser. Not many of them). I look at it this way, MD. People model objects in Wings3D and other programs then bring them into Bryce, download free objects and photographic textures and use them in Bryce and no one objects. But use a Poser figure in a render and some folks do object. I will never understand this attitude. So in this matter, I have to agree with what Drac wrote (I don't get to say that very often, LOL, but I mean it).

And there is nothing like the Poser header above the Bryce Gallery, I'm proud to say (our community is much more inclusive). That's one of the things that make me proud to say that I am a Brycer who uses Poser. I consider Bryce to be the primary program with which I create my art. All other programs I use are complimentary to Bryce.

I am sorry, but I am one of those people who really hates poser... I feel it takes away from the true spirit of CGI. After all, it's not about playing with dolls, it's about creating something out of your mind, everyone sees poser figures and oo0h's + aaah's however, it's too easy. Granted, take note that I am talking about the unfortunately large quantity of images that feature a poorly exported poser figure rendered in bryce with a shoddy 5 minute background job. Using a poser figure to put a tiny touch in a final image is great, take that recently posted "floating giants" or whatever it was, an amazing image, with the final detail of a poser figure. I wish there was an option to see "all galleries BUT poser" when searching for an image, unfortunately that is not possible. By now you can probably tell that I hate poser, and sadly I do, I think it has permanantly damaged the world of CGI and I wish it were never created.. For an example of what I mean look at the magazine cover winners... poser, poser, poser, poser ,poser... makes you insane, that people probably spent more time on some of the other images submitted, however poser "looks good" to people who don't really know about CG, they think it's a more challenging/better looking image, so let them have it. As for me, I'd rather see a brycian mirror ball render than those.

Ornlu, you are speaking about bad pictures. I disagree with "permanently damged". I mean, what, everybody should model their human and other figures by themselves? Sorry, no. Even if you'd consider my pictures to be playing with dolls on a shoddy background, take a look at Beton, for instance. He uses Poser figures. Or Rochr. His "Timerider" ended on 3D World cover and it uses a Poser figure. Not to mention "The Artifact" (which I personally like better) and others. The fact that Poser makes possible for people to slap something together in three minutes doesn't mean that "it takes away from the true spirit of CGI". Does Bryce take away from the true spirit of CGI because you can cobble up a landscape in two minutes? While in other programs you have to labour and sweat to create something like that?

Ornlu: although i don't mean to, but i felt insulted with your comment... im an avid poser user (and so is Rochr, beton, alvin, doublecrash, catlin, and others) who felt that a human touch can make a picture look better other than good. Now it doesnt mean that we are taking the easy way out which in fact we are... but we want to create images that makes up our imagination. True there are a lot of ways to use bryce but creating human figures with them is totally impossible... if yuo could create one ill proclaim you a bryce GOD and pay tribute to you (im not insulting, but merely exagerating). Poser provides an alternative to create images faster. If i were to use cinema 4d to create figures, well i could do it, but the time factr is so long i might as well use poser which is a 100x faster. Geez if i were to model one from scratch i would have... a: draw the figure front and sides b: use nurbs to create the polygons c: arrange the nurbs e: mirror f: create morph targets g: create bones h: create limits i: create textures j: create props (repeating steps a to i) k: pose well if you use this would happen... a: create figure b: pose c: place in props see the difference? now thats why we use poser.... im prety sure yuor pertaining to those who just play around with poser, but you see the whip lash also affects us... just be gentle. (i dont mean to argue just placing my point down) as for maddogs comment, well ian, bryce doesnt put limits, though sumtimes i dont like looking at it too, but the community here is by far the friendliest, thats why, better live with it! haha! and btw gud luck on the poser work, it not that hard once you get the hang of it, just dont do the morphs... it hurts!

"Granted, take note that I am talking about the unfortunately large quantity of images that feature a poorly exported poser figure" I want you to know, I am talking about the NVIATWAS overpopulation, and similar images. I would also like you to note, that I love poser as an "accessory" to bryce, I don't like just plain rendered poser figures in bryce... I meant not to insult the users who create worthwhile images; and I only meant damaged as in there are far too many new people to CG that pick up poser, make the same render as 5,000 people and claim it's original art. I know the photoshopping hair in and advanced render techniques etc are, I am talking about people who plop render poser figures, without any actual work. Sorry if I wasn't clear about this issue, that is why I hate poser. (but the magazine cover thing still bugs me =P )

By coincidence I came to this thread just after looking through the gallery and while there were one or two images that might have sat happier in the Poser gallery, I think that "at least half", is a slight exageration.
Its a problem I had when I started, but then I didnt post in the gallery until I was satisfied that I wouldnt be embarrasing myelf too much and by that time I was using Bryce for my renders. I first started 3D with Poser. I found it an extremely difficult program to use in the construction of a complete picture. I still do but it is a great repository for models, much more so than Bryce. so I looked into Bryce and grabbed it with both hands. Fortunately I found I hadnt wasted the money spent on Poser, because, if you want figures, especially realistic human figures in your renders then Poser seems to be the way to go. And I feel it is the presence of a human figure that makes these Poser renders "look good". We react to these figures more than still lifes or landscapes. Its human nature. I have now reached the stage where I can model a simple room in Bryce, nothing more, but feel a great satisfaction in doing so. I still struggle with modelling with lattices, but that will come. The challenges for June in both forums showed up what I feel is the restriction imposed by Poser alone. The theme was identical but the Bryce response was much broader in concept. (If you want to see what I am capable of, go look at my Poser entry. Someone actually gave it a point. Amazing!) I now have no problem with posting my images in the Bryce gallery. The figures may be Poser as are most of the props, but its a Bryce image.
I have an awful feeling I may be rambling a little but its my birthday and Ive started on the cans early.

Poser, one word, "Koshini" Aawww my gawd, the horror.

brings the popcorn and watches the flaming go on :D

Happy Birthday Sambucus!!! :)

Ta, Jay.

Happy Birthday! I don't have much to say on the Poser issue. I don't have it yet but would really love to enhance my Bryce images someday with people, animals etc. I've got a ways to go before I invest. There's good talent out there and not so good. I've seen just as many not so good Bryce renders in the galleries (some are mine) but because there's no nudity involved people just pass over them without a second thought, lol. Human nature I guess. I don't have time to wade thru the galleries so I have begun adding the artists that I want to see to my favorites. It will save me a lot of time and if I happen to miss out on something fantastic by doing it this way, well I probably would have missed it anyhow. my .02

Happy B-Day Sambucus...what's your choice brew for your special day? Taking Drac's tip and starting a new paragraph I agree with the comments above, and I'd have to thank Ornlu for taking some of the sting away from me...heheh...I knew I'd wake up this morning to some back and forth comments. One reason why I posted it is because I wanted to see what others thought about the issue, so that maybe I can be able to shine a new light on the thought. One thing I didn't want to do was come across as being a whiny little baby, and with the comments posted, it seems you all took my words the correct way which is good. And I am glad you posted your responses because now I do feel better about it. I can see how the Poser group would be harsh, I've checked out their forum trying to pick up a few pointers. new paragraph In the future, I can say from this thread I'll see Poser art in a new way. I just didn't think they used Bryce as much. But that they see us as friendly folk, that's a pretty good tag to have, and I'm glad for that. new paragraph Ornlu...thank you for posting your opinions, too. The best thing I felt you said was how you like Poser as an accessory to Bryce. I think that's the point I was trying to get across. If art is used in a genuine form to add to a Bryce scene...I'll enjoy that more than the 'poorly exported figure w/ a quick 5 minute background'. But then I began to think that those that make the poorly exported figure w/ a quick 5 minute background pictures are beginners trying to learn and gather opinion. (This is the thought I've gotten after reading this thread.) My first Bryce pictures weren't great either, but hearing the positive opinion kept me ticking. I'm hoping that's the case with these other folks. If anything, I think I'll try to show some more support in the future for Poser/Bryce artists that are beginners (once I learn some Poser so I can offer better, more valid opinion.) new paragraph Anyhow, hack at this message if you want. But just to refresh, I'm thankful for all the posts, positive ones at that. I've come away with a different view, a better one I think. Thanks to those that took the time to post. Regards, MD PS...Ornlu, how DO they get on all the magazine covers? ;) hehehe PPS...Drac, thanks for the tip, sometimes when I'm tired I tend to ramble on and on...hehe...

I use poser characters for characters in Bryce. I feel that once they are imported into Bryce it becomes a Bryce render. Poser seems to me to be what I would term a painting or staining type or renderer. Lights apply colors like inks to a region of the image. Specularity is at a minimum and true reflection is non existant in poser 4. By contrast, Bryce actually deals with rays of light. When I import a poser character I usually replace all the metals with Bryce metals. I occasionally use the poser texture underneath as a bump map. I use variations of Bryce tile procedurals for cloth on much of the clothing. Bryce glass replaces the outer eyeball in Vicki. Usually less than half the original poser textures are used on my final Bryce render. Once I'm done with the unique textures only possible in Bryce I have a render that would be quite different in poser. I never bought bryce as a modeler, I bought it to render from Rhino and Poser. If it was meant to be a stand alone program they never would have set it up to import models, or images into the terrain editor or the materials editor.

Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=437681&Hot=Y&Sectionid=2

Check out the image "Floating Wonders" I found in the galleries last night. This image is 99% Bryce, even the machine is primatives and terrains. Without the poser character I feel this image would not have the sense of awe or perspective that it has. While I do agree that many images are just poor character studies there are images like this where a well placed character or two are essential to the scene. We have bad work in several galleries though its easier to generate something in poser than most apps. Maybe we should just set up a seperate "cheescake" gallery?

Electroglyph, without the person, we wouldn't have the grand scale of the machines - your point about awe and perspective is well taken. Maddog, I'm glad you feel more comfortable about Poser figures rendered in Bryce being posted in the Bryce gallery. One other point I'd like to make is that the lighting in Bryce is better than in Poser 4 (which is what I use). If I wanted a plain figure study (no background), I would much rather import it into Bryce in order to light it than try to light it in Poser. Poser, on the other hand, gives you tons of control over the figure and it's clothing so you can get really interesting figures if you experiment enough. Lin

If you didn't notice, I mentioned that image in my first post (I didn't look it up and thought it was called floating giants or something =P), again that is what I believe poser should be used for, to heighten an allready great image in bryce. Something that you post and people say wow, but it needs something to put it into the human perspective, so you add a poser figure for that final touch.

At the end of the day I think the poser renderer is flat out trash. Granted I have only dabbled in P5 as yet...but P4 is baaad. So, my most recent image is all poser figures, sorry if that bothers some that I posted it in the Bryce gallery. Heck, I didn't even do a background in that one but... What made the image for me was the volumetric lighting...impossible to do in P4 and THAT is what makes it a Bryce render for me. The poser people are merely the actors...the medium for the art is Bryce.

Altho I agree about the NVITWS'...I also think that using Poser figures in a Bryce image just makes the Bryce image better...just depends on what you do with that figure..what message you convey, and so on.. ~Jani

I've used Poser figures in Bryce renders but only because that's what the image required. I also usually texture the figures in Bryce 'cos I've got some good skin textures that to my eye look better than Poser's. I've got Maya and intend to try making models to use in Poser then Bryce, that is once I get the hang of it. So for me, using a Poser figure is just using another obj object. Catlin

ahhhh, now i see your point clearly ornlu. i like to apologize to, i do not want to sound like a prick back there. the response just got the better of me... anyway if you put it that way then i have to agee with you... i do hate POSER to! i never like poser's limitations... and the only way to make poser renders good is to include a background like daz's multiplane cylorama but that is not even 1/4 of what a great image that bryce can do.. tnx for the clarification