Sealtm2,if you "just want to render stuff"...think about Vue d'Esprit. You put togeather what you want in Poser..save it..then open it in Vue.You get far more control over lights,material settings,and render options than in Poser4 or 5. It doesn't cost alot,it's not hard to learn,and it opens up more creative possibility than just getting another version of Poser. SWAMP