Hi Carolly thats what I did (parent to the hand using the branch body) the only thing I can thin of is that it may have something to do with the fact that when I rotate the branch x or z it tends not to rotate from the centre of the branch but from a point (for the sake of argument) an arms length from the end, like the hands of aclock where you can see only the bit that touches the numbers. Oh well if at first you don't succeed try etc thanks Dave