ahhhh, now i see your point clearly ornlu. i like to apologize to, i do not want to sound like a prick back there. the response just got the better of me... anyway if you put it that way then i have to agee with you... i do hate POSER to! i never like poser's limitations... and the only way to make poser renders good is to include a background like daz's multiplane cylorama but that is not even 1/4 of what a great image that bryce can do.. tnx for the clarification