We could always attempt some custom morphs to help out further... I'd have to examine the V3 mesh but what do we need? Multiple forehead wrinkles? I'll have to try snapping some reference images from Resurrection of the Daleks, see if I can create some custom morphs in Cinema4d or even Poser (a couple of tricks shoudl make doing forehead wrinkles slightly easier). Cheers, Cliff Bowman PS can you supply a wireframe image to help judge whether the mesh is dense enough to do under-third-eye wrinkles using mesh deformations rather than displacement mapping? Oh yeah - in Poser 5 we could displacement map a certain amount of extra detail in...