The concept of "loss-leading" applies to high demand products, which the retailer knows that people are going to searching out en-mass. Classic examples are supermarket bread and milk. On online stores, eagerly anticipated video games are often tagged as loss leaders. One of the most recent and most successful examples was the latest Harry Potter tome. Sadly P5 most definitely doesn't fall into the loss-leader catagory since by all accounts its been a very difficult product to shift. Loss leading with a slow seller simply doesn't cut the mustard. Recent cut price sales of the product have infact been the result of stock clearences, and, as such, fairly temporary. Retailers, especially online, simply can't have cash tied up in stock. Even though it seems to be a case of thowing good money after bad, for retail companies, freeing the cash up (even at a loss) does allow it to be recycled into higher turnaround, and hence faster money generating products. Losses made in stock clearence sales can be quickly recovered by reinvesting capital in the right stock. Even so, for companies like CL, it does provide some useful data on prices and sales, so it may well help to trigger future price cuts. After all, its better to sell a thousand at ten bucks than one at a thousand. Both P4 and ProPack (upgrade) were originally priced at a little over $100 each when they were first released, but in the 18 or so months before the scheduled release of P5, CL increased the prices to their current levels, (IIRC) $219 P4, $199 ProPack (upgrade) and $379 for the P4/ProPack bundle. The strategic reason for these prices increases was that P5 was intended to "storm" the mid range market at $549 (full). The P4/ProPack prices established a fairly linear upgrade level (around $200 between products) to support this. The upgrade prices to P5 were originally intended to have been $179 for P4/ProPack users and $379 for P4 users (ouch). Unfortunately, despite hefty price cutting in the face of adverse market reaction in the run up to the release of P5, the P4 and ProPack prices have stuck at their artificially high levels, at least until now. The new sales price of P4 is, however encouraging, and CL may well realise that there is some market for a more reasonably priced ProPack upgrade. Bill