Mazak's trick works not only with the clay node but also with the diffuse node. The material in my shot works in both FireFly and the P4 renderer in Poser 5. You don't lose anything as you can use the inputs of the diffuse node just like you would use the first two inputs of the PoserSurface node, e.g. plugging textures into it. Hmm...looks like I really should get started with my FireFly FAQ... Stefan