I started out with a Warez copy of P4, (I've admitted as much before, go search) when I could buy one again I did, (I have a CL version of P4) Then I pre-ordered P5, which I saw more as an exercise in giving CL cash to keep them afloat rather than getting an upgrade. Subsequent use of P5 did not dissabuse me of this notion. If somebody gets P5 for $199, good luck to them, though I reckon they'd be better off with P4 at $110 and spending the rest on the Mike and Vic CD, or perhaps just V3. Because if you need to ask where to find any of this stuff then you're practically computer illiterate and beyond help. Hell my mother could find it... (But then my mother is quite happy to switch boot disks in the BIOS, YMMV :) later jb