Oh sorry i forgot to add, for swamp, how did you find out David Ho uses bryce? Ive been looking into something like that as well, like the virutal scenes i described, im not sure if poser can do that. And im sure if it can it still would be easier in a program like VUE or Bryce. But then its hard to see bryce vs. VUE, ive read so much on that. Price is no issue, just the least troubles to get across what i want to. I heard bryce doesnt do shadows good. But after playing with the demo, both are intuitive, and easy to get started.