This has been an old line jordan... i had my fill with this see the "we brycers are...." thread started it and saw what it really means to be a brycer... to be honest... i use 3ds and cinema 4d now... and i love those programs especially when it comes to modelling... i can model complicated obljects with the least polygn count... BUT.... Bryce brings out the artistic side on me... yeah i have ambitions on hitting the animation industry, but thats yet so far i can barely see it... BRYCE is like a little brush i known thats called a MOPPET (chinese brush) true its just a cheap brush BUt it can compare to much more expensive brushes since its so versatile, you could do anything with it... it has both a sharp and a blunt tip do you follow me? If your a brycer, it doesn't mean your not as good as they are... they may be only good at fast renders but if we had a contest on creating atmospheric images at lighting speeds, well we would come out thriumphant... whatever they say, id still stick with Bryce till the time its going to get really old... but ven at that time im still going to be back to get great terain renders for the background.... and atmospheric scenes.... nuff said and hope your happy now... dash----i cant flame you, we share the same sentiments... hope nobody flames me... E