Thank you! I've had to change my scene concept. I was going to have a thief holding this chalice with a ghost materializing behind her but after experimenting I can't get the ghost effect I was looking for. I think I could use DCG's Fake Frensel but it would take a ton of work to remove the unwanted (interior) edges. What I'd really want is something to extract the surface polygons of a multi-layer model (like a poser figure with clothing on) but I'm not sure how to do such a thing. Another option is to separately render the ghost as a solid object that composite it in with transparency but I don't think I could get that to look very good. So, the scene will instead have demon materializing (I think it will be beter this way). While figuring out how to rework the scene, though, I decided to do another, shorter project. I'll probably post a WIP on that later tonight if my GI render doesn't take too long ;-) Marc