shadow: I've tried several of the greener looking terrain textures and they all look like crap with this pic. I may need to change the sky properties to something completely different, although every setting i've tried makes it look even worse! LOL The mountains can be sharpened some by making less haze very easily....am thinking also of moving them back a bit to make them look more distant. Seven: the focus as of now is on the lighted waterfalles, but the foregroud is to give a sense of wanting to set on the benches. I think what actually happened, in this pic, is there are too many focal points...the falls, the benches, and that red tree. definately going to work on the grass texture, have never done a texture map before so should be very interresting...lol also need to make it look less flat....but then, i really love the original pic, so is hard to even compare...(and after about the 5th day working on the bryce version, they all looked the same..lol) thanks everyone for all the fresh views and thoughts and helpful hints..... the grass in the pic, looks great on some scenes and like this in others... http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=457280 is a pic i just fixed with the grass in it, is a good example of how good it can look....looks freshly mowed...grins will keep workin on it....lol