Catlin, You are always so nice...the voice of reason and the voice of design...lol You're probably right...lol hopefully ine of these days i'll have a whole day to sit and render, and post grins The plus side is, this week, i created a new phpBB2 forum for our manor and palace, and am now debugging....i would love to be able to design a whole new set of images for it using bryce. who knows, maybe my whole day in bryce rendering will be doing that? winks Anyhow, i'll try to post here more....lol but if ya'all don't see me for a while, dun worry, i'm still around...grins...but could be lost in the now 5 boards, or bryce, or scripting palace or building in manor, lol and if the kids kidnapped me, PLEASE SEND HELP! LOL thanks for all the support along the way! grins JenC