i'm working on a tutorial to show exactly how to do it! so no-one say anything until its finished, friday(ish) maybe late wendesday if i get my finger out and take the screenshots i need. i'm really sorry i missed this months challenage, everything was on course for being in on time but i (like a fool) acceptted more hours at work while the sale cataloge was out. http://www.cottontraders.co.uk quick plug there, sorry. i work on the orderline (yes i'm a call centre worker! incoming calls only!) processing telephone orders. dull but it pays well. i'm now well on course for broadband! sorry, pakled, for hi-jacking your thread. you csn have it back now! john ps: will post my "late" entry to the challenage ASAP, prehaps friday. if i can be bothered.