It took about 20 minutes to render the final, which I did at 1200 x 1200 pixels. I did all the setup renders at 800 x 800 (it should have been smaller) with the "pixel samples" set to 1, they took about 4 minutes, I think. My AMD 1.4 is starting to show it's age, I expect to update later this year. The big advantage of having the mirror as a Poser figure and doing it in P5 was I could turn a dial a little and re-render it, rather than tring to reposition a primitive after rotating it. Plus it is a nice looking mirror, look at the piano hinge at the joints. ;-) Plus as slow as P5 is it is faster than Bryce (Bryce probably renders nicer, though). P5 seems to especially have problems with Trans-mapped hair in the reflections, the direct view is O.K., though. I have to figure out how to render properly in Max some day! MM- Ha! It will be in the Pro Club at Poser Pros in a couple of days. Ingenue Vickie should be up at DAZ for next weekend too, but you will not see this pic, as they don't like showing thongs in the sales pics. (I.V. isn't so sure about them either, as you can see.) I made the mirror to work up the pics for her, you get 4 views for the price of one!