I seem to have cured the problem by convertering my facial magnets to morph targets, no more probs, just seems that when the morph targets are written to file they could clash against each other and corrupt the geometry file, as the face detoraited more on a second save when I tested it. Maybe a sitch off deformers and repair model command might be in order in Poser5 or a more rubust file system. Gunbuster P.S. I do have the patch