can't just say that something sucks, and then not provide >points to prove it. yes, sb says to take into Sure you can. World governments, corporations and the nightly TV news do it all the time, and people accept that. ; ) And in the end, "facts" are not nearly as usefull to most decisions and feelings and outcomes. Seriously though, there are a lot of people around who are under contracts and other obligations not to share certain information. You shouldn't jump on anyone to quickly and assume they don't know what they claim, no matter what the delivery format or quality. > whole butt load of people over in the mac section are >yched about p5 and ready to whip out their wallets. i And there are also a "butt load" of Mac users who have moved on to other applications, and simply will never be coming back to Poser. They did loose a lot of customers for good.