As I've said, I never minded the commercial ads here, I also don't mind going to the Product Showcase forum. I usually hit it at least once per day. So I don't see either choice as a problem. I also don't see what the big deal is about getting more people to look at a merchant's products. Sprinter's contests ALWAYS seem to have long lists of posts = large numbers of people looking at the items in question. Perhaps the problem isn't in where the advertisements are but in the advertisements them selves. And if the P.S. forum isn't enough, by itselve use a banner.. yep they are still up there, and point it to more details in the P.S. forum! I'm sure there are other ways to draw attention to the P.S. forum, or directly to the merchant's store. I think it should be ok to show a WIP in this forum when a specific question, opinion, or reqiest for help is made, even if it's as simple as, "is there a market for this?". As long as it's kept "in Taste", say a single post and not a case of spaming the forum with an 'update a hour'. I think part of the problem recently has been because the posts in question had multiple advertised items in them. They used Mike 3 as a hook (yes I'm as interested in seeing what he is like as everyone else!) then also contained commercial items by the poster. If they had contained the poster's item alone, and with a question, etc. in the mix, no one would have complained. IMHO The inclusion of M3 as a hook (intentional or otherwise) to get more people to look, along with the number of messages that popped up in a short period of time, pushed it a bit past simple requests and grated on others that have been chastised for the same "transgretion", or less. That's why I believe we need solid rules, published and followed/enforced by/for all. typo's and opinions are my own, I appologize for the first... mike