that's ok, as the lighting and rendering models are way better in C4D and Carrara. In Carrara, I have real refraction, and real caustics in renderers that use photon mapping. I have a plugin to C that gives me fresnel refraction and fresnel reflection as well. HDRI is really a nice plus, and something I am really into learning lately. Not listening to this Poser as Renderer hype, when I see the difference so clearly between a Carrara render and a Poser render, and C4D is not that different regarding the photon mapping and HDRI either. I'd rather the time spent on an application that is a super super posing and animation tool, something that works with other programs I work with extremely well. If someone finally quits throwing toys at me and starts to realise what I want... I'll happily switch to that application. Or stay with the one I am currently using. It just depends. I'm the customer, and so I just wait and see who wants to make me happy. g P5 I bought for the cloth room. I like the cloth room a lot. But I still export it to render in Carrara.