lol .... i am really laughing about this forum ... looks more like bitchin' post ... everyone has an artist in themselves, no matter how much effort ya do to sculpt something from yer mind ... there ain't no losers either nor non-talented artists ... i think ya all are very good in what you do ... and if we learn something from each other, then we are good teachers and students ... in the end we will all produce awesome images ... and get wonderful comments ... i maybe wrong, but isn't that really what did forum is for... to help each other with what we do love to do most of the time? so please do not bash at each other again, thats not exactly what we are here for ... thank you :-) Harmen