Thats the stuff I was basing my experiments on, stefan. I looked up probe light, hdri, radiosity and a bunch of other stuff. But couldn't find anything were someone had forged ahead on this particular theme in the direction I was interested in. Stewers stuff is amazing, his website really cleared things up for me as far as rendering was concerned. As far as I can see you'd have to fake radiosity, ie not only where the light comes from but also how it bounces of a particular object. therefore youd also have to tweak reflections ie a yellow wall would cast some yellow light from it. Eric, unforunatly I don't know those programs you mentioned except for Bryce and have heard of Terragen. Stefan, does it have to be SR3, i put that on and it really messed with me, I had to re-install poser in the end and upgraded to the previous SR. And also what do you do with it? I had played with probelight plugged into alt diffuse and eventually achieved a self-lit V3, which is all well and good but not what Im after. HDRI in Poser, fake or not, has turned into a bit of a Holy Grail for me just recently. I'm pig-sick of those C4d users :-( and the effects they achieve. I've read about HDRI, seen documentaries on it, I even read a couple of tutorials on how its done in C4d!!! But can I replicate the effect? Can I buggery!