i've used bryce 2 (the demo) it is extremely basic. no skylab and stuff. i personally wouldn't bother, but thats me. i got poser 3 off PC Formats cover CD a few months back. having never used poser before i thought it was a bit iffy but ok. THEN i got poser 5, bloody hell the difference was amazing. the program actually does stuff you want it to! going back to bryce.... i used to have Bryce 4 (actually i still have, a friend gave it to me on a CD which is over here.....), i used it for about 9 months THEN i got Bryce 5 from work (hey it was lying around unused...) and the difference between 4 and 5 is immense. if the gap between those two is the english channel (about 43 miles across) then the gap between bryce 2 and 4 is like the pacific. is that helpful or a load of tosh? John