Blimey, that theme took a strange turn. I can understand why Madmax is angry that images he put a lot of work into seem to be ignored while other artists get all the kudos. I have come to the conclusion that the way people vote here doesnt necessarily follow any logical pattern. An image that gets high into the Hot 20 may get almost no votes when put into the challenge, for instance. There was a glaring example of that a couple of months ago. I have been lucky enough to have 4 images make it to the 20, and I think this is simply due to the first one. Once youre in, you seem to have a much better chance of doing it again. Not fair, I know, but that seems to me to be the way it works. And Max is right. Some artists work goes in automatically, regardless of worth. As to the value of certain types of "art", well, the artist obviously likes that style, and if a lot of people vote for it, then they do too, so all anyone can say is that it doesnt do anything for them. Art that says something to a particular viewer is probably never going to be as popular as something that would happily adorn a box of chocolates. I am of the opinion that what makes a good image, in the context of this forum at least, is what pleases the viewer and the artist. If its unicorns in a woodland setting or just rendering models (something I am probably guilty of, although I dont actually feel very guilty), if it makes the viewer smile or feel good , then that is ok. When a really good, thought provoking piece of work does come along, it always seems to get the praise it deserves, as far as I have seen, but the majority of us here do this for fun, surely. I have no illusion that I am any sort of artist. I render models that other people have made, into compositions that other people occasionally like. That pleases me. As to the rest of the post, if you can do anything to right the wrongs in this world, then I wish you god speed, Madmax. Its an unjust place and will become worse unless those with youth and energy do something about it, but youre going to be fighting a strong tide. Where art, and Bryce in particular, fits into this Im not sure,. A very few artists have influenced the world with their work, but I doubt they where bothered by popular opinion when they made them.