Although griping and complaining goes back to before the internet was popular, I think the current wave of bitching in this forum started with the bloodletting over Poser 5, a reaction which I thought was way over the top and unneccessary. It brought a small-minded nastiness into the forum which I don't think has ever left. Now it's common to bash every new product sight unseen - and even rant against merchants in general, as evidenced by the recent furor over showcasing products in this forum. I said at the time and I'll say it again: this kind of nasty, childish whining mustn't be tolerated at all -- I don't care how justified the complaint might be. Criticising is okay, but the incessant bad-mouthing, complaining and ranting has to go. Some months ago, a brilliant figure creator brought a new female figure to the marketplace. When it was discovered that the creator had (in all innocence) used the P4 woman's body mesh as a starting point (incorrectly assuming it to be in the public domain), you'd have thought he personally walked into every member's home and deliberately murdered their pet cat! The crowd was ready to lynch him. Today that is all forgotten, and that creator's company provides some of the best figures for Poser in the Marketplace. Half of you probably buy figures from that creator without even realizing that this forum almost banned him out of existence! I suppose it was time for the pendulum of nastiness to swing even in Daz's direction. With no fresh meat to chew on, the whiners have slowly begun to turn their vicious claws on Daz. I think the ranting against M3 is just the beginning. Watch how quickly these whiners (many of whom are former Daz worshipers) rip Daz Studio to shreds by the time it finally arrives. Nasty whining begets more whining. If we're going to ban anything here, let's ban THAT. If we're going to suppress free speech, we might as well go all the way. I'd rather see bitchy complaining banned on this forum than product annoucements. -jjsemp