cherokee69, it's not that someone is afraid to say anything, it's that you have mentioned it numerous times and some of us are checking it out to see if we can do something with it. No model is perfect right out of the box, and if you look back at any of the models I defy you to find one that is. When you put polygons together sometimes they don't work in all poses or tweaks, and that's when folks start working together. Give us and Daz a chance to figure out what happened with it and how it can be fixed. In the long run if you can't live with it then get your money back. There are down sides to every model that has been put out, but in the long run I think that although M3 and V3 won't completely replace M2 and V2 I will be using them more. Like my mom always said... you can please all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. 8^) Marque