[i]but their really is NO comparison Between the poser5 renderer and Cinema 4DXl's render engine[/i] Correct. Despite all the global illu, Cinema4D doesn't do 3D motion blur, 3D depth of field, true displacements or subsurface scattering, where Poser doesn't do radiosity or caustics. But where would you need caustics in a character animation program anyway? Final Fantasy had no radiosity either. About my AO plugin - it's just something that Pixels:3D, whose render engine was licensed for Poser 5, has for a long time now. Actually, Pixels:3D is where I got the idea from. So the render engine of Poser would be perfectly capable of doing ambient occlusion, it's just the node that's missing. Looking at the C4D images posted so far, there's nothing in them that FireFly wouldn't do.