"A recent comparsion used the same pose on each without taking this into account, so of course Mike 3 appeared to be bent unnaturally in this form." That comparison was done by me and I'd like to clarify what other people seem to think is was, in that I said it was the same pose, not that it was an M2 pose. The pose was on I created for M2 and had saved it. When I did the comparison, I used it on M2 and not on M3. I posed M3 by hand in an effort to sort of match the M2 pose. So now, where is the logic that the M2 pose caused the visible problems with M3? For everyone (which includes myself) that actually sees some of the problems areas with M3, the pits, the elbows, the shoulders, stomach, etc., we beating a dead horse talking about it.