:) boy do I feel silly. I went back and that was so much easier. I keep forgetting that you can do that. All I changed was the rock from neg to intersect on the duplicated one. Didn't need to change anything else. However, it is still much less confusing for me to take it into solo mode, that way I don't have an accident with something else. A couple of times when I was grouping I caught it taking the ground plane into the group with it. Not a good thing. Ok, I've rambled enough.