:) Than you, Jen. I made a transmap and tore up those pants. lol Erlik; I've been thinking about that, and you are probably right that it would be better to do that on the texture. And you are absolutely right that theyre aren't a whole lot of GOOD textures out there for the P4 family. THere are some, but this is one that is called "natural Vic" or something, which is actually pretty decent, but! the legs are too clean! lol I have Poser 4 still.. Contemplating the 5 though. But since hair wasn't possible to get out of it, and I think Bryce is a much better rendering engine; I've let it be so far. Angela; thanks a bunch! :) Let's see; I think that the Bryce forum was the first I approaced when I became a member of R'osity (muct be a coupla years now), but then Poser and modelling bit me. I decided that I wanted to be able to do it ALL. lol I stranded pretty nastly by trying to conform cloths for the poser family, that stuff went far over my head! In addition; I've been (still am) a bit active in the photography forum. So I've got a lot of interests going. As for the DTE challenge; I came in here when that was finishing up. So I got to vote. lol and I saw Rayraz' tut, and will try it. Still; it's very difficult to make believable textiles. I think that was one of my first questions to the forum a couple of years back. lol And I haven't gotten any better at it. There are so many very nice metals and rocks out there; but not some really good and beleavable textiles. If you think about it; we're surrounded by fabrics of one kind or another. I mean. Like everywhere. l Oh, well... I'll have to continue using image maps for cloths, at least. :)