I have a confession to make. When I started with Poser, I liked P4 Nude Male just fine. I got defensive when people called him Dork. "What's so bad about him?" I thought. I was able to morph and texture a pretty respectable looking 3D guy. But that was before I saw what was being done with M2. The texture maps and basic mesh shape was sooooo much better. At first I didn't like M2. I thought he was too bulky, his chin was too wide, his jaw too angled, his traps too tiny, and what's up with that horizontal collar bone? But after I discovered M2's body morphs, P4NM became a "Dork" to me too, because he really was dork compared to M2. M2 is infinitely better. And so I had finally created a respectable M2 guy, when M3 came along. I wasn't too sure about this new model. I didn't like how he was the same mesh as V3. But after experimenting with him, and working on texture maps, I'm like, "Michael who? M3 Rulez!!!!!!" LOL! But I'm just goofy that way. ;p Seriously, once the SR1 for M3 comes out, I think it would be a good idea to get M3 if you need male figures for your renders. He is a leap forward. M2 seems "dated" to me already. I can't believe how much time I wasted on M2's texture maps, M3's UV's are so much better! And I can't believe how good M3 looks! Wow! Have you seen the ProjectZ promo pictures? The Rogue Fantasy Warrior? The Pirate Pack pictures? Wow! Double Wow, Wow!!! M3 is built like a movie star! This version of Mike is much more to Basty's liking. He's default shape needs very few dial spins to get to a "respectable looking guy." And I really like all the face and teeth morphs too. :D bB