Okay, It looks to me like the best way to solve your "pinching deltoid" problem is to distribute the bend more between the Collar and Shoulder groups. In the preceding images, the pose is: Left Collar: Twist: -13 Front-Back: -16 Up-Down: 31 Left Shoulder: Twist: -69 Side-Side: 4 Bend: 35 Left Forearm: Twist: 0 Side-Side: 0 Bend: -83 This first image is without morphs. The second is Muscular 1 set to 1. The third is Muscular 2 set to 1. The fourth is Muscular 3 set to 1. The fifth is muscular 3 set to 1 and Deltoid set to -1.399. If you distribute the bend between the Collar and Shoulder groups you can get a much more realistic bend on Michael's arm. We designed both Victoria 3 and Michael 3 to take advantage of this style of posing. We studied our own bodies as reference. When I raise my arm, for example, the upper arm isn't the only thing that raises, my clavicle raises also. Since we can't use real bones in Poser we use the collar group to simulate the collar bone (i.e. clavicle). So, when Michael's arm is raised, ideally, the Collar should go up with the Upper Arm (i.e. Shoulder group) in relatively equal amounts. At least that was our intention. Many members of the community have varied methods of posing that give equally good results, but the method I use is what you see above. As for the Forearm problem you see. I can't actually duplicate that fold in the inner elbow to that extremety unless I put a fairly drastic twist on the Forearm. Poser's joint system is definitely not perfect, but I feel that we've done as well as possible with what we have to work with. If we add too many JCMs to correct ALL of the joint issues then things get to be so complicated that conforming clothing is impossible to make without ridiculous amounts of joint and morph work. I'm sure we all agree that too much work to make clothing makes it difficult for everyone. :) I hope this helps. I have to go now, time to go home and get some rest. I'll check in on this thread in the morning to see if I can help out any more with anyone's questions. Thanks again for your patience, Tony "Melmoth" Bradt Content Production Coordinator DAZ Productions