Oky guys i got it.. i think..but tell me what i did..lol in joint parameters there is a check box that says use spherical falloff zones... i unchecked that box and whalla no more blow outs... hmm guess that means i can go back to my wider sleeves now..lol but what is spherical falloff zones and what does it do? Okay i got it working,but i need to know why? curiosity is killing me..lol thanks to everyone for pointing in the right direction Shali more confused then ever..lol