nomuse, For the record shadowdragonlord is one of our more competant Brycers and has taught me a trick or two when I was first getting serious about Bryce. Although there are ways around the limitation by importing mesh primatives as I've said previously, no one disputes the limitation in exporting. If your final result is a render Bryce is one of the better ways to go; if not, a traditional modeller is a better choice. Gmax from descreet is omne such option and with the proper gmax scripts it will even import and export wavefront objs. Right now microsoft is supposed to be working on a fix for an update to that recent worm patch which boogered up gmax so right now might not be the right time to start up with it, but I'd keep it in mind as a modeller as well. - TJ