Spanki, I hate to correct you, but I found out the painful way (ie days of hard work later), that turning off 'cast shadows' for floors or ground props does, repeat DOES, affect the shadows falling on it. It took me days of head-scratching to figure out what I was doing wrong. (In fact, it was les bentley who finally twigged it). It's another poser oddity, but try 2 renders and you'll see the difference. mac