Point 1.) Let us be clear here, what was installed as part of 4.03 was, indeed, a trojan. Why? Because it was a program or sub-program designed to act outside the expected bounds of the program we thought we were installing which was surreptitiously installed without our knowledge or approval. While CL has every right to protect their intellectual property, we have every right to know what is being installed on our systems. Point 2.) The fact that Steve Cooper has come forward to apologize for and explain this unannounced installation is commendable. Point 3.) I have no reason to doubt the word of Steve Cooper. And he is highly praised by some who I have grown to respect a great deal in this forum. But Steve and CL have to understand where we stand. While they were away in New Orleans, explanations were offered by someone at CL that did not jive with the evidence being presented. That increased the level of mistrust more than a bit. Point 4.) Contrary to what has been stated, it was not a "...Chicken Little..." mentality that caused this. It was a combination of an admiited lapse on the part of CL, the well publicized behavior of many other software companies in the recent past, the recognition by many that if they do not safeguard their systems no one will and Point 3. That is not behaving like Chicken Little. That is being safe with your system, your data and your privacy. That is also being cognizant of the low moral threshold too many in this business operate with. Point 5.) Curious Labs was also a victim of that low moral threshold spoken of in Point 4. Because we have been had by the likes of Radiate, Real Media, NetZip, AOL and many others, we have been forced into an almost "fortress" type mentality. And that damages companies like CL who may innocently make a mistake or just plain forget something. I understand that. My company is comprised of 4 over-worked humans, three spoiled dogs, two lazy cats and two "getting too big" sharks. We have been known to "drop the ball" on occassion. Point 6.) I think when they begin digging into the code, the folks at CL will realize that some rather poor coding was used to impliment their serial number checking. And it was that coding, not necessarily the firewalls, that caused the firewalls to sound the alarm. Conseal, in particular, is rather good and it even believed it was an Internet access attempt. It has been a few years since I was involved at the end, but, I just think CL will find that the coding implimenting this was below par. Point 7.) It may involve some additional work on the part of the folks at CL and the user if they wish to move Poser from one machine to another, but, may I suggest they investigate hardware locking keys for future versions of Poser? I have yet to see a successful pirate version of any program where I used hardware locking keys. It gives the developer protection and should eliminate privacy concerns on the part of the user. However, like I said, it does entail additional work if a customer wants to move his/her Poser to another machine. You have to weigh the cost/benefit factor. It was also just a suggestion so please spare me the flaming arrows and red hot pokers. But I get pretty peeved when I see uploading copies of Poser and Zygote stuff onto the net. I almost always drop a note to Zygote letting them know so that maybe they can nail one of the less careful or stupid pirates. I would be glad to do the same for CL and Poser. Point 8.) My friend has yet been able to take the time to dismantle Poser 4.03 and I haven't had the time myself so my "paranoia meter" is not completely pointing at 0. However, based on their past and the respected opinions of some within this community (... and we ARE a community, a diverse community) until such time as there is another "slip," I am willing to give Steve the benefit of the doubt. But I will install the patch after we tear it apart. (Trust the Lord but tie the camel.) Point 9.) Actually, I once did create "Jack Shit" for an art project. ;) Point 10.) I tried, but, there is no Point 10. And I a too dang tired to try and think of one. Sorry. Take care and Godspeed.