eb, the further I get into this the more it seems to be an ATI/open gl problem. I ended up trying a massive amount of different combinations in the open gl categories. After turning everything off, loading scenes that had crashed and then turning open gl back on things seem to be working. Wish I knew for sure what had taken place. I am still putting vue through the paces trying to make it crash again but it looks like my issues might be with ATI. Thanks for the USB 2.0 lead, I will try it if I run into another wall. mokba