yeah i was just thinking about that myself as a matter of fact. i have played around with 3ds before from a demo version, and a friend of mine has maya that i use some times. in fact that is how i made some of my models. maya would be my first choise, but even with the discount it is close to a grand, and frankly i don't have that type of money laying around. so i should say that it is a toss up between max and c4d. decisions, decisions, i guess the cash flow will make the choice for me. i'll have to go knock over some 7/11's for program money! lol!!! the version of c4d they have here in the market place, is that a boxed verison, or a download? the price on that is not bad at all.