hmm, I'll have to take a look at that tonight after work. I think its more in line with what mark said about being on the inside of the mesh. How to correct that I have no ideal. As to the value set at 0 I dont think thats it..notice the top shader is also set at 0....in fact most of the shaders are at 0 transparency. I'll check that also tho. btw dethblud...its that big b/c its running on duel monitors.