Caly, I don't think you're getting our main point here. Not many people are against poser itself. It is simply that we are being overrun with nviatwas style immages. Poser images with postwork or artistic quality have nothing going against them. However, BigT did not actually create anything in his image. Would you consider a museum curator (sp) an artist for how she or he hangs the paintings on the walls? I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. And yeah, I am against bryce in a way. I know that every new bryce artist will take scene, slap in the basic land shape, add a sky, some water, a tree, and make an island. This isn't art, it's just pressing buttons. However, I gaurantee you that if you were to glance through the bryce gallery, this makes up a very small portion of the images. Whereas the poser gallery appears to be permeated with nviatwas, that's why there's an acronym for it... If there's ever a day when people start saying sdmiswwaat for standard displacement map in some water with a tree, then I'll admit we have a problem.