Well I am less confused now here is how "jimgranite" Did it. Goto the terane editor and make your iceberg. Then goto the last icon on top it has a mountain and a plus. then right click on the function and you get a menu of functions chipped is one in the basic area. select that and tell it ok then go back to it and right click the chipped function and select edit function and there is the menu with fractal layer turn it on and turblence turn it on and noise select smooth noise there are lots of other interesting possibilities for all kins of terane. This should keep us busey for some time. Thank you jimgranite for making me learn a lot more about VPro today. Aloha Glenn