Thanks Mark I figured out the arrange thing, I was expecting it to be available for boolean shapes as well as spline, my mistake. In terms of the presets, they certainly appear to have forgotten them, which is a shame, as I am learning to use the modellers at the moment I didn't really want to also learn how the renderer worked, I just wanted to play around with the presets to see what it was capable of. Oh well, I'm sure it'll get patched or something. Best wishes and thanks Jody