Ronstuff, ...You have perfectly illustrated my point that opponents of this very simple concept seem compelled to push it to the point of absurdity in an attempt to trivialize it. I do not argue with the concept's simplicity nor did I offer any form of opposition or trivialization. Rather I was attempting to demonstrate that individual needs or desires may indeed be simple but trying to accomodate all of them can result in needless complexity. ...you are provoking an argument based upon an absurd assumption. Of course it is absurd. I would have thought that was self evident and it was given in the manner of light-hearted and extreme illustration. Can anyone really speak of "real men" and "sissy textures" and still keep a straight face? My point was much the same as yours- that it is rarely feasible to do all within a single program. Where was the argument? ...When you say: Places like Renderosity cater to the crowd in general and thus satisfy most of us are you suggesting that the majority of the people here ASKED for "Refrigerator Art" and "Wierd" genres? I'm not cetrtain how you arrived at that. Perhaps because you conveniently omitted the important qualifier in my statement- to wit "...satisfy most of us somewhat but few of us completely." Your question also implies that the majority of the work here is "Refrigerator" and/or "Weird" but I don't believe this is the case. ...When you say: Frankly, I am not even sure what "true and valid Poser work" might be - that is apparent, so why enter the dialog at all? Because I assumed the subject was worth further open-minded exploration with the goal of a more complete understanding. Apparently I was wrong. ...If you would like to know, it [Poser Art] is simply Art which is composed and produced as a FINAL RENDER within Poser. But this is an opinion, not an incontestable definition. While I would not say you are necessarily wrong I would question what makes your opinion correct while a differing one is incorrect. The sky is green with pink polka dots. This must be true because I said it is so. ...people who say, "You can't do THAT in Poser" are usually wrong. I would say often but certainly not usually. While there is more that can be done within Poser than first apparent it is also true that there is much that can not be done in Poser. ...And that is not the message which should be given to the newbie who honestly seeks advice on Poser. For those things that truly can't be done in Poser I think this is exactly the message that should be given. Why let a newbie pursue a fruitless task when instead they could try the hundreds of tips in the forums showing them what is possible and how to achieve it? A long time ago I was heavily involved with Fractal art. I was also roundly criticized because my images frequently involved multiple fractals and extensive layering/blending techniques and thus my work was unpure. (none of which seemed to bother those who bought my calendars) The preferred fractal generator of the day was Fractint- powerful but limited. Eventually people started using more flexible programs such as UltraFractal. What the fractal crowd really liked about UF was that you could - wait for it- create an image that used multiple fractals and extensive layering/blending techniques. I never did figure that out. Despite what you appear to believe I was not arguing with you. Instead I was stating the obstacles that lie in your path. 1) The difficulty of managing an even larger number of specialized galleries. 2) the difficulty of providing a definition of "Poser Art" upon which all may agree While I do not feel the same as you I encouraged you to pursue your goal with an independant petition. I even mentioned an obvious solution to ameliorate your desire under current conditions. I'm inclined to believe that you have read what you wanted to read instead of what was written. Perhaps you are right- there is no point in my further participation. Good luck and good night. - Jack