Well, I don't know about being a DAZ groupie - What does that mean? People who hang around outside the office trying to pick up techs? - but I do broker through DAZ, so maybe I'd be considered biased. Still, I'll say this anyway. DAZ admitted (in their own forum) that things have been a bit hectic of late and that there had been a higher than usual number of customer complaints, unanswered e-mails, etc, etc - and they spelt out the measures they were taking to correct the whole situation. The post said something like 'one unhappy customer is too many as far as we're concerned'. Anyway, the point is that DAZ may have had problems lately... but they at least have the guts to own up to it, not pretend it isn't happening, AND they're damn well doing something about it. So, if DAZ is the inefficient, uncaring company portrayed in chaos outlaw's post, how come they have the balls to acknowledge the problem and take steps to fix it? I'd say that the comparison with M$ is pretty thin. When did M$ last own up to making mistakes? I also followed chaos outlaw's thread at DAZ, and IMO, he didn't seem to want to take the advice offered in that thread. He has every right to his opinion of DAZ, but to me, it seems to be based on frustration, rather than a genuine grievance. mac