Carolly says: *Don't leave. Every voice they manage to still, every person they chase out, only reinforces their claim of "unresponsiveness". * I don't know where you got the that anyone was attacking Stefan from, Carolly. He's a big boy and he's demonstrating that he's quite capable of acts of self-immolation without any external assistance. All that happened (and you should really make an effort to read these threads before you interject) was that Stefan went off on a pointless bug-disproval exercise and, in order to save him wasting any more of his time (and, of course as a matter of civic duty), I gave him a direct and simple test case in which he could witness the bug for himself without further dispute. Where I criticised him for demonstrating poor engineering techniques I was, admittedly, harsh, but nevertheless truthful. I most certainly didn't pour flammable liquid over him and I really don't think that even that criticism amounted to handing him the matches. Of course everyone makes mistakes and the occasional lapse but the guy must have been having a bad day... In an earlier post I did describe bug finding as one of the most thankless tasks in this community and subsequently Stefan managed to prove the point perfectly by, ungraciously, trying to excuse the bug with a criticism of the techniques of myself and the great majority of Poser users, backed by a statement regarding the "length of a piece of string" along with numerous contradictory quotes from the string trade (or something equally meaningless and irrelevant). Also, back on your quote, I don't know who "they" refers to, but I guess it a reference to "everyone who's not us", whoever "us" is. I am aware of "individuals" in this community, such as myself, who have put a great deal of time and effort into improving Poser through bug finding and identifying weaknesses, and if sometime we're critical it's because we need to be. We match it with constructive comment, accurate analysis and decisive opinions and, ultimately we've gained some small comfort in seeing our efforts reflected in both CL's and DAZ's future development plans. I'm also well aware of "individuals" who, as self appointed public relations representatives for CL, have been characterised by the inability to follow threads, knee-jerk reactions, rudeness, ineptitude and shortsightedness - the very sorts of people who try to turn technical and bug reporting threads into flame fests and factional recruiting grounds. By their voluntary association and the self-defeating negativity, these people have done a great deal harm to CL's public image and may have caused substantial harm to CL's business without ever providing any positive benefit for the company. Now it's enormously presumptous on your part to be creating your own minority clique and assuming the mantel of the "community", every bit as much as misguidedly believing that you are the sole "friends of Poser". Communities, of course, naturally tend to factionalise but responsible members should always strive to resist that tendency. However, if you do manage to form such a leper colony, please exclude me from any future member lists, as, I suspect, five minutes in your collective company would find me trying to saw off my own head rather than be exposed to anything more than you have to say between yourselves. I'm really much happier to remain one of "they", thank you very much. If your comment was intended as an invitation to Stefan, I'll let him decide whether to join the ranks of the bitter and ridiculed. I think his reputation (and his credibility in my eyes) has taken a battering, but its not unsalvagable. In fact I'm rather inclined to offer him some real hope to redeem himself. While Stefan has been searching his library for the definitive definition of string length I spent another ten minutes doing something constructive. Here's another exercise, Stefan: 1. Bring up the task manager, select "View::Select Columns::VM Size". 2. Launch Poser 5 SR3 into factory default state (i.e. 3 default lights and casual Don with hair). 3. Select Light 1 and set shadows to ray-tracing. 4. Select Lights 2 & 3 and disable shadows. 5. Select render settings and set to "Production Mode" and enable ray tracing. 6. Note the value of the "VM Size" for the Poser process in the task manager. 6. Render a movie using "Current Render Settings" across the default 30 frame range of the static scene (i.e with no animation). About 10 minutes. 7. After the end of the rendering note the "VM Size" of the Poser process. And, yes, its another memory leak, with not a shadowmap in sight (about 50MB in a 30 frame animation on my setup, maybe it would worth testing whether 3 ray-tracing light would give exactly the same results as the shadowmapping case). Just to save you some time, the answer to the first question that's inevitably going to pop into your mind is: "It's because you weren't looking and I was." Now, so far in this thread I'm the only person who's put any time or effort into really addressing the memory leak issue. As I stated earlier, however, I'm really no longer inclined to do this anymore, except as a diversion, and, if you re-read the previous posts (including your own Stefan), you'll understand why. So I'm not investigating these bugs anymore, and it's up to you whether you want follow Carolly into self-important oblivion or, instead, take up these problems, investigate further and demonstrate that you are capable of providing some real useful work that will actually help CL to improve the product. You don't, of course, have to do anything you don't want to, but the opportunity is there to achieve something positive in this thread and come away feeling good about it. Just don't expect anyone to thank you for it. Bill