Yep, bob. I know the feeling. I'm always trying things that don't work, then discovering months later that they do, and I just didn't do it right or something. A few weeks back I posted a mini-tute here on making collapsable accordian-type doors inside poser using the box prop, and it was basically done using by copy/paste to get all the boxes into position. It's one of these things you tend to use then forget about, then suddenly remember again how useful it can be. mac