'We believe they manipulated their web ring position.' That statement is an oblique accusation of fraud. In other words they can't actually prove it, but they have strong suspicions. 'Is it possible for those numbers to be arrived at legitimately? Of course...Is it likely?...Not very' This second statement does not contain proof of fraud. It only repeats that they BELIEVE there was fraud. Presumably, this belief comes from viewing the numbers. But, if you want to put it another way, what it means is that they can't believe that a site could become so popular, so quickly. So, the question at the end of the day is this. Does Renderosity have the right to act in cases where they BELIEVE that something fraudulent has taked place? And I suppose the answer would be 'Yes, they do'. It's their site, their TOS, so it's up to them to enforce standards when they think there's been jigger-pokery. BUT.... in my opinion, they might have done themselves a favor by consulting with Lady Cherry first to see if she could clarify the sudden increase in numbers, before getting out the hatchets. mac